Often overlooked, strong DVD sales and impressive fan support campaigns also revived Firefly (Fox 2002) for a movie spin-off, “Serenity," in 2005. In 2006, fans then released a documentary called Done The Impossible
. It features interviews with various cast members, making the words "Firefly and Browncoat symbolize a sense of community, family, and believing that the impossible can be accomplished."Currently, there seems to be three standout TV series that were cancelled (with one already resurrected) that networks will be watching closely. Maybe one of these will be the next big DVD sales surprise.
The Black Donnellys
. Due to be released Sept. 4, DVD sales seem to be the most important aspect of this fan effort if there is any hope of pulling off the impossible on any level. Working for the fans. There seems to be a well-executed effort by Universal to deliver a 3-disc product that promises to do justice for Paul Haggis' smart, well-written crime drama. It may have been too powerful for prime time, but it might be perfect for DVD. They also have the benefit of a Sept. release and still active NBC page.
Working against the fans. TBD has a smaller fan base (but no less passionate) given the series did not have a full season. There are almost no Amazon reviews and online HDNet sydication did not help these fans as much as reruns on another network would have. (Amazon pre-order sales rank, pre-order: 2,441)
Veronica Mars
. The third season is due to be released with a 6-DVD set on Oct. 23 (not available for preorder on Amazon). Although fans pulled together a campaign that sent Mars Bars (Snickers and marshmallows too) to The CW, creator Rob Thomas confirmed a dead end on June 12.Working for the fans. They have two seasons under their belt, both with very strong sales. They've earned Thomas' appreciation as fans, and he promised to do something with the Veronica Mars character if not in comic books, then perhaps in a new series based on the character or even a film (if you believe some rumors).
Working against the fans. There is the simple fact that many of the stars (Kristen Bell, Chris Lowell, Enrico Colantoni, and Tina Majorino) have already moved on to new TV and movie projects. So even if a character revival rumor beyond comics became true, it's likely not to be Bell. (Amazon season one sales rank, 634; season two, 573)
Jericho
. The DVD, recently bumped from Sept. to Oct. 2, is not yet available on Amazon. However, it has managed to earn 47 5-star reviews.Working for the fans. Momentum is clearly on their side, given they already scored the largest show cancellaton protest in history, fastest network cancellation reversal, and the knowledge that CBS is already considering moving beyond seven shows. They also have a very large fan base that can turn on a dime (it took fans less than three hours after yesterday's post for them to become upbeat like they used to be). Jericho DVD sales will also be pre-supported by reruns starting July 6 and new episodes this fall.
Working against the fans. Not too much as long as they stay focused. CBS might do more to target new viewers as opposed to simply pleasing the fan base with Internet ads. And one wonders whether the availability of Jericho on iTunes, CBS Innertube, and now the new Amazon download feature
will dampen DVD sales. But then again, some fans have pledged to buy five sets and send them to friends so who really knows. (Amazon sales rank, not yet available)Of the three, Jericho seems to be the easy favorite to lead the pack, which could make all the difference in securing season three despite what numbers Nielsen offers up. While Veronica Mars seems likely to have comparable sales, The Black Donnellys may find DVD sales are their one real shot to be publicly counted.
59 comments:
Great article. Thanks.
I never watched VM but those fans seemed to be everywhere. Too bad they didn't get what they wanted.
The Black Donnellys is a good show. I really have enjoyed watching. I know a lot of the fans but I also know they need more people to join them. The numbers aren't there yet.I hope the DVD does well.
Jericho? Well, you know us. If we buy as many DVD's as we did peanuts then we should be in good shape.
Yes, turning on a dime. That board is really back together. Many thanks to you because you appealed to common sense & everybody remembered why we are here.
BTW, there's a thread over there about what we'd like to see you write about next.
Rich, It is great news to read that you can see the change on the CBS webpage. I do believe that there a uptapped fans out there who would like Jericho but chose not to watch it because they thought it would be depressing. It is uplifting because they focus on the town overcoming the world's events.
Debby from SC
Hi Rich,
I agree with JS, this is a great article. It's interesting to put the three shows together and see what all three fan bases have a head of us.
I agree, I think Jericho leads the pack. I have yet to see an episode, but from what all of the Jericho fans have done and described to me, this show is worth seeing. I'm excited to see the first episodes in July. They have such a large supportive fan base.
As for The Black Donnellys, I agree with you completely. Our numbers are small and we try twice as hard to increase those numbers. It doesn't help our group at all with NBC boards censorship. It's hard to reach out and inform people about the campaign, when we are constantly suspended or deleted from that board. We know that is the first place viewers visit.
I think with the DVD release and nice price-cut from Amazon.com, more people will hopefully, become engaged and purchase the DVD. As for the reviews on Amazon.com, we, at the Save The Black Donnellys campaign, will change work on that. We will be making that one of our daily action items for tomorrow.
But we will keep a close eye on those sales ranking. We know that support is out there.. it's a matter of reaching them and getting everyone informed. We just don't quite have that outlet yet.
I'm posting this for Pam:
I've been trying to post a nice comment to him and can't get my google account to acknowledge my password, even changed it, and it still won't work. If you post a comment, could you please tell him I said thanks for his help in opening some eyes and getting things back to normal? I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Pam in Ohio
Hi Rich! Thanks again for the article and mention of TBD. Yes, our fan base is much smaller than Jericho primarily due to only 5 episodes being aired on primetime but as you said, none the less passionate. Additionally, most of the long time NBC board members have been suspended from the boards for posting topics such as "save TBD". NBC has deleted all topic threads that have anything to do with saving the show. Wow! We have to fight three times as hard to direct fans to our campaign website www.savetheblackdonnellys.net. Our other battle is to get another network to believe in TBD? How hard is that going to be? Seems like Mark Cuban did but we don't know where to go to find out if the viewship is there or has increased in spite of his efforts.
We just found the pre-order on Amazon last night so hopefully the pre-order sales will continue to grow as well as the comment section.
I applaud Jericho and their efforts. I have actually become a new fan and have recruited some friends which should please CBS. This really is a great show!
I guess money talks as it always has. DVD sales brought The Family Guy back, right! Us firecrackers hope that our letters, emails, quarters and crackers will grab someone's attention! Maybe it is all up to the DVD sales! We shall see!
Thanks again!
Thanks for the great article. I'm planning on buying the DVD as soon as it's out (have been a fan since the pilot episode) & will probably gift it also. It's a great show with a different premise - everyone should check it out if they haven't already.
Thanks once again Rich,
I have wondered the same thing about DVD sales for Jericho myself, but given that I have watched the show repeatedly on Innertube, and I am still looking forward to having season 1 on DVD, I am hoping others will feel the same. Also it is great seeing all the new fans on the message boards the last few days - I guess the CBS promos and hopefully our own efforts are paying off. One talks about a huge fan base, but do any of us have any idea how big it really is? Season 2 will tell.
Thanks everyone. I appreciate it. Yes, I have a soft spot for jericho fans for doing what critics said could not be done (they are too "ratings" focused if you ask me, except for Friday Night Lights. ;)
I only have a minute or two at the moment, so please forgive me for only addressing a couple...
JS... Really? I'll have to look for that thread. It's not always easy to find what things over there. Maybe I'll write about why I won't write about it, whatever it is. That's a joke. Maybe. ;)
Paigec ... after learning more about the show and watching part of the first episode, its easy to see why the show was liked. You might be a smaller group, but there in lies some advantages. NBC is not FOX, but you all might want to study what Firefly fans did to score a movie.
There may be some similarities in terms of the fan base size. Plus, Haggis is well-suited for movies and such a move could always rekindle interest in a series. Of course, being nice to HBO wouldn't be a bad idea either. Some people mistook what I said last week as that HBO was a lost cause. Not so. I was merely weighing what is as it seems to be.
http://jerichoboard.cbs.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?sr=y&msg=15577.1&nav=messages&webtag=CBSMBJericho
This should make you smile.
Rich,
Thanks again for your views on Jericho and the wonderful fans. There may be disagreements from time to time, but as with any family, we move past them and focus back on what is really important. Sometimes it just takes a firm boot in the bottom to get us back to where we should be. Thanks for being the boot this time! I look forward to reading more from you.
Thanks JS. It did; it thrills me to see fine people shift through my sometimes sarcastic words and fins solutions that work. :)
And thanks Krestral. Yes, it is true all groups and families have disagreements from time to time. Fortunately for families, not everyone is privy to the communication that takes place around the Thanksgiving table, which really cuts to one of the points I was trying to make ... the fans had "company" (potential viewers) and forgot to keep their elbows off the table. Fortunately, or unfortunately maybe, you had a guest who makes it a point to tell people when the dress doesn't fit.
I look forward to seeing what you guys do with the DVD sales, much like the other two shows and how the networks might respond to it. Numbers can be fun when you know which ones to look at.
Long live the Black Donnellys! HBO, give the "Irish Sopranos" a chance.
this is a good article. I would like to add that it dosent seem that NBC did a very good job in promoting TBD. I only knew about the show once it was online and i was sick with the flu looking for somethng to do and fell in love with it. It seemes like it was destined to fail from the begining. However we can make a diffrence. So lets get a better marketing sceme than NBC and get people intrested in buying those DVD's because we all know that their arnt more fans, is because no one else got a chance to watch it.
Thanks for the article.
I'm a TBD fan and I have hope that TBD will be saved. I am also a Firefly fan we got a movie after our good DVD sales. I know that the TBD fans are still small in number but I think with our campaigning and good DVD sales we will get a network to support our show.
Thank you for the terrific article and much congratulations to all the passionate Jericho fans out there!
My husband and I are both TBD fans. We looked forward to watching the show each week that it aired on NBC (few as those airings were). We even watched the remaining episodes online. We cannot understand why such a smart and engaging program was not given the proper opportunity to grow and prosper by the honchos at NBC. Hopefully, TBD fans will find the kind of success the Jericho fans achieved in their own campaign to save their favorite show.
Thanks again for mentioning The Black Donnellys in another one of your articles. It helps to let fans know that there is a DVD set out there of season one. The DVD set is especially nice for fans like myself who are unable to get HDNET.
Thanks Rich, for the great article and for mentioning TBD in the same league as Jericho and VM. We’re all fighting to get our shows the respect they deserve. The DVD sales are very important to us fans and in our efforts to bring back our shows. The Black Donnellys may have a smaller fan base, but since the DVDs went on pre-sale the Amazon ranking has jumped from 3,000 to 600. We are out there and love our show! Hopefully someone who has some say in these tv matters will finally take notice.
Hey Erin, I know, I've been watching; make it number one and NBC will rue the day. ;)
I read somewhere that someone asked how to turn on new fans on to TBD, given it's short season.
Well, this is more viral than organized consumer marketing, but I might pick the single best stand alone season and e-mail the link to friends and family (if I sensed they might like the show) with a note telling them what it is about. If they liked it, I might follow up with a link to Amazon.com
If I had a blog dedicated to TBD, I might sum up, review, and add direct link to the espisode on NBC. If I was feeling experimental, I might host a contest and give away a DVD. And if I was thinking long-term, I might start an entire site dedicated to organized crime television shows and movies, but skew heavily toward TBD.
Keep in mind, there are only tactics tucked in a comment, and not thought threw solutions like you might find in a post. But it's something to kick around.
Rich,
VM Season 3 is available from Amazon.com for Pre-Order now.
Can you keep us upto date on the Pre-Order numbers?
Rachel,
I'll do my best on all three.
Right now, I don't see the sales figures up, but I did notice it has 31 reviews and is also available for download. That's a solid start for an Oct 23 release.
Here is where VM Season 3 is ranking as of 9pm EST...
All DVDs: #5 DVD Drama: #1
TV: #3 TV Drama: #1
Amazon says they update the list every hour. But I don't figure after 5pm they have someone continually updating the list.
Thanks Rachel. I also included the rank in today's post ... but it was at a different time.
The fact that you have hit the top 10 is a big boost because it makes non-VM fans look twice at VM.
I do recommend someone research everything else Firefly did because I'm not certain it was DVD sales alone; DVD sales was, however, very critical.
Rich,
VM S3 has gone down on the ranking list, #25 among all DVDs and #15 among all TV DVDs.
Is that going to hurt us? Or will we be okay as long as copies are being bought?
Thanks for the Firefly suggestion. I'll do some digging.
Hi Rachel,
Don't forget the ranking on Amazon represents "live" purchases. The final tally for the year and peaks, not nesc. the daily ranking, is what will raise network interest.
Daily ranking mostly help because some people tend to buy titles that are higher on the list or a VM fan who happens to be visiting might find #3 that much easier. Of course, if you're in the top 25 every day, then it's almost a given you'll lead total DVD sales, especially television. However, I would hate to see fans by extra copies just to raise up dailies. You could go broke!
In comparison to Family Guy, for example, there were many days were it was no where near the top 10. But overall, for the year, top-selling TV show on DVD and fourth most bought television title ever (in 2003). I'm not sure what Firefly sales were like, but they were good enough.
All my best,
Rich
Rich,
Is there a chance that VM will get picked back up in television format or is our only hope really a movie?
Rachel,
This is a huge guess on my part, but given that almost all the stars have moved on, if WM were brought back to TV, it would be a different show.
A different show has almost too many factors involved to hazard a deeper guess: ranging from how fans would embrace a new VM actress to marketing to who the new writers would be to ... well, almost anything.
As it is, even a movie, it seems to me, would likely have new people in several roles. I do think the comic might fly, but certainly won't appeal to all TV fans. Of course, that's all imo; I'm not always right fer sure.
Rich
Rich,
Even though a lot of the characters have new jobs, I hope they would find a way to fit a movie into their schedules. I really hate it when shows end leaving you guessing. I just want closure to the storylines.
In your opinion, what would our DVD sales need to be to even have Warner Bros consider giving us a movie?
Rachel,
On this point anything I say would be such a shot in the dark (and baring unforseen issues like we see with things like The Hobbit) ... I think you would have leverage in the top 20 DVD sales 9top 10 to be written about) or top 3 in television by year's end.
Here's what they were last year:
Pirates of the Caribbean: DMC (Disney)
Cars (Disney)
The Chronicles of Narnia (Disney)
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (Warner)
Over the Hedge (Paramount)
King Kong (Universal)
Wedding Crashers (Warner)
Walk the Line (Fox)
Ice Age: The Meltdown (Fox)
The Little Mermaid (Disney)
Bad news is you have to beat movies; good news is that DVD sales are down. I'm not sure how much cash this would be. Here's The Hollywood Reporter's lists: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/home_entertainment/charts/index.jsp
Rich,
On the list for The Hollywood Reporter...does it include Pre-Orders?
Thanks for all your help.
Rachel
Rachel,
I believe so; from what I understand The Hollywood Reporter tracks sales based on reporter revenue, including pre-sales, as submitted by the distributing company.
No problem. Happy to help. :)
Rich
Rich,
Are the people in power going to be looking at number of copies sold or gross money number?
Since Amazon and others sell DVDs at a discounted price, does that hurt our money grossed number?
Rachel
Hi Rachel,
I think, or I might say hope, that the total number of DVDs sold will mean more because it would demonstrate an snapshot of anticipated movie goers if someone were to make a movie (plus, additional DVD sales of that movie).
Rich
Rich,
I agree. The thing is VM fans don't have a problem spending money on VM stuff.
The fans spent $8,435.00 on the campaign that started June 7th and shipped June 11th. The amount of money does not include how much was spent buying "The Bitch is Back" from iTunes on June 12th or what many fans sent in Mars bars and marshmallows on their own.
That was money that could have gone in their pockets.
Rachel
You're right Rachel.
I know some Jericho fans that budgeted "nut" money every week. Fan campaigns are rough.
I think VM fans started too late to save the show with a protest (I appreciate their were mix messages), but it seems to me the character has some very viable options given what Thomas has said in interviews.
When I wrote this piece, I picked three shows that I thought had the most marketability. There were other shows that didn't make the cut ... but they don't seem to have fan bases like these three shows nor ability to move beyond what they are.
All my best,
Rich
Rich,
I agree with the mixed messages and starting the campaign to late. I think that no matter when we started...Les had made a decision and we were NOT going to change his mind.
They did achieve their intended objective...tiring out the fans.
Do you know how long it usually takes to get DVDs in the formats for other countries?
Thanks for this article. I miss Veronica Mars SO MUCH! If it came back in TV format, I would die happy.
MOVIE is the next best thing. Let's keep hope alive!
Rachel, making DVDs available for other countries is solely dependent on the producer. I don't believe there is a set time.
Michelle, you're right that positive thinking is mission critical for any fan base. Really, there are two ways to make a movie: create something new and market it; make something based on what you know people will want to see. (eg. The decision to make a Harry Potter movie was originally made because fans loved the books.)
Rich,
During the Mars Bar Campaign, I kept hearing that Firefly got a movie to wrap up the series. I have recently watched Firefly and Serenity the movie and LOVE them.
It was another show that was canceled to soon. The Collectors Edition is coming out on DVD in August. In September the contract Universal has with the original actors to make a sequel expires.
Is there any way to find out if Universal is talking about a movie sequel? Firefly is still selling great...it's beating VM S3. Serenity CE isn't far behind VM S3 in Pre-Orders. Thoughts?
Rachel
Rachel,
I see if I can find more insight about this, but sometimes reading autograph groups can provide insight into what actors are doing (or not doing). Sometimes this is where entertainment writers get their tips on upcoming deals, movies, etc. (the good ones anyway). It's not always easy to do.
My partner is an avid autograph collector, which has been a benefit anytime one of our communication posts crosses into entertainment.
Rich
Rich,
Thanks again. I have checked out different Firefly/Serenity forums and it seems that nothing has been said about a sequel. I guess that since the movie there have been tons of rumors of a sequel being made.
Would putting out the Serenity Collectors Edition a way for Universal to see if there is still the fan base to warrant making a sequel?
Rachel
Hi Rachel,
Serenity grossed $25,514,517 domestically; $13,354,947 internationally. It seems to me a Serenity Collectors Edition is an easy way to increase the Firefly franchise's (if we call it that) total take.
So while I don't think Universal is releasing this to gage sequel interest; it still makes sense that its sales may re-spark interest in a sequel (pending talent hold outs).
It also points to something else that I've been looking at with increased interest. Networks really need to change the way they think about programming. When series can become movie and merchandising giants, why on earth would ratings alone dictate earning potential?
The lines between movies and television has been blurring for some time now (with more and more actors/actresses moving between the two). The Internet is only fueling this even more.
Rich
Rich,
Do you know what the total dvd sales, money form, were for Serenity?
In your opinion, would sending something to Universal be helpful in getting a sequel? Since the contract expires in September, are we to close to the expiration date to get a sequel?
No, the best I could find was a year-old report that put Serenity at having sold 2 million DVDs. I did note few other interesting tidbits:
1. Joss Whedon refuses to work for Fox again.
2. While gross sales were good, the movie had a $39 million production budget.
3. There was a three-issue comic book series entitled Serenity: Those Left Behind in between the series and the movie (That might be of interest to VM fans).
4. Although no one is really talking about a sequal, there seems to more activity centered around Serenity, including a dinner with Joss Whedon auction that ends in two days: http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=joss-whedon-supports-charity
Rich,
The Browncoats raised over $100,000 Dollars for Joss Whedon's favorite charity. When you go to the link it says "There are already sites confirmed for 2008. Universal has already given their OK for hitting it again."
http://cantstoptheserenity.com/
In your opinion, would this make any difference to them to make a movie sequel?
Rachel
It depends on the dynamic of each situation.
For example, we can pled all we want with Peter Jackson all we want, but the dynamic is to strained for such a campaign to work (from Hollywood Reporter) ...
• New Line has said that the project is in development and has the rights to produce the project, though MGM has the rights to distribute the finished film.
• Studio chairman Bob Shaye has insisted that Peter Jackson NOT direct the film -- because Jackson is suing New Line for additional monies he alleges are owed him from the "Rings" franchise.
So to answer your question, Ruth, the continued visibility of any content always plays a factor in keeping it among the living, if not, living dead.
Whether the project gets off the ground or not has a little bit to do with whether the stars have to align. I think the charity event is brilliant in that it the Browncoats have organized a fan base that understands why centralized efforts can result in projects that keep the story alive, even if it doesn't result in a movie.
I know this doesn't answer your question directly, but only because there is no formula. Each fan campaign might borrow successes from other campaigns and try them out, but each fan-driven campaign must adjust to its circumstances.
Rich
Rich,
The dinner auction with Joss raised over $52,000.
Universal HD Channel has announced that Firefly will be shown as a weekly Series starting July 28th, and The Sci/Fi Channel will be showing a Firefly Marathon from 8am to 4pm on August 10th. Do you think this means anything?
Hey Rachel,
I think it means anyone who thinks we have seen the last of Firefly in some form could find themselves mistaken. Though DVD sales are increasingly the measure for what might find itself a sequel, assuming it hasn't saturated the market, which this series has not.
So I guess if you want a cut-in-dry answer, it seems to mean Universal is feeling out interest. So either they will find a supportive fanbase OR make a few bucks more before closing the vault (which means until Hollywood is short of original ideas).
Rich :)
P.S. I had never seen Firefly until being surprised how entertaining Serenity was.
Rich,
I was surprised I liked Firefly...I'm not much for Sci-fi. I really liked River's fight scenes in Serenity.
I found out that Summer Glau (River) is in a new show for FOX. With FOX's track record with the actors from Firefly/Serenity it won't last long.
I hope that a sequel gets made, but understand if it doesn't. The cast and the show is so unique, that is why I like it so much.
You know Rachel,
In thinking about what you posted, I used to be avid Sci Fi reader until Sci Fi turned a little tech heavy (nowadays, I mix it up). The best stories remain people-centric and I think Firefly certainly qualifies.
Thanks too for lending so much to this conversation. It has much more depth than I ever knew it might.
Best, Rich
Rich,
Thanks for all your help and your opinions. They were very useful. I do still hope that we get a Serenity sequel. They could do a movie with the Blue Sun group. I figure the need to be in talks a while ago for a movie to be a go before the contract expires...I don't think a sequel is going to happen.
I am also hoping for a Veronica Mars movie. If you have any suggestions on how to achieve this I'm all ears.
Thanks, Rachel :o)
My pleasure Rachel.
My best guess, assuming those who have the rights are smart, is that Veronica Mars will one day see a movie based upon a solid VM universe, apparent fan-base, the promise of a comic, eBay merchandise, and solid DVD sales. I do not think it will necessarily include any existing actors/actresses. And, I think that it will do well unless they spoof it like Nancy Drew.
The real question is when and that is anybody's guess. All my best, Rich
Rich,
Have you heard the good news for us VM fans? RT is no longer working on Miss/Guided.
I know this means that we have a good chance of getting the comic books...but do you think that it could mean that a movie could be made soon too?
Rachel
Rachel,
I think that depends on DVD sales. Based on the impressive pre-sales at places like Amazon.com, there is a good chance it will get some hard consideration.
Given the top 10 in the Hollywood Reporter today, I think there is a good chance VM3 will find itself among them in October:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/home_entertainment/charts/index.jsp
But anything until Oct. is still a guess. And that is a long time for RT to pick up something else. My fingers are crossed for you guys though.
Dawn Ostroff said as recently as July 20: "Veronica Mars," she said the show had "no stronger champion," and that the network "really tried to bring more viewers in" but was unable to do so.
Egad, it sounds familiar to me. Best, Rich
Rich,
I always love your input.
As for Dawn Ostroff, she said that she doesn't regret canceling Veronica Mars and goes on to say she was the biggest champion...blah blah blah.
What does Egad mean?
Rachel
e·gad: –interjection (used as an expletive or mild oath): Egad, I never thought of that!
However, its hardly used anymore. I used here to demonstrate overly dramatic and theatrical sarcasm. :)
Rich
Glad to see you think the words coming out of her mouth are CRAP!!
I enjoy the sarcasm...it is very Veronica Mars.
Have you heard anything about RT getting a deal with ABC after leaving Miss Guided? That is the new rumor.
Rachel
Hi Rachel,
No, but that does kind of illustrate what I thought.
RT certainly has some marketability. I'm sure there are several offers on the table.
Best,
Rich
Rich,
It sounds like RT has a contrat with ABC. Since he left Miss/Guided he still has to fulfill his contract. Does that sound logical?
I haven't actually seen anything like this on the web, and I have searched. It was posted on a VM forum by a fan.
Rachel
Rachel,
There are all sorts of contracts so anything is possible. Without knowing more about it, it would be difficult for me to comment, even if it was a good or bad deal.
I can say contracts are tricky things. They almost always sound good when you sign (and most are), but a few don't turn out to be so good later on.
Best, Rich
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